In walks the GENIUSES. Every year there is always someone who says you are not allowed to say hataras nedarim at night. Every single year without fail. Even though, every single year these people are SHOWN the Shulchan Orech where it says one is allowed to do hataras nedarim AT NIGHT. Here is the Shulchan Orech (Yoreh Deiah 228:3)
Translation: How is the nullification said? He says to him three times, "It is allowed to you, or permitted to you or forgiven to you." Even if [the bais din] is standing, relatives, IT IS AT NIGHT, if it is shabbos and even if he could have asked yesterday, but it has to be necessary for shabbos. For example, he made a promise that he would not eat or he would not do [the commandment] of rejoicing on shabbos. However, issues (excommunications) of the congregation we are accustomed to permit even though they are not for the needs of shabbos.
So it seems like our friends don't know Shulchan Orech very well, but are willing to voice their opinions. Is it not amazing that this happens every single year, since before I came to this shul. Incredible how stubborn some people can be.
I am going to do something different this year though. I think I am going to post the Shulchan Orech page on the shul bulletin board. What do you think, too much?
The reason I want to is because this Rabbi was able to convince a few of my friends not to say it tonight. However, they are in the same boat I was last year and this year. They are going to school and do not have time to go to minyan because they are in dental school. They are going to have to worry about how they are going to do hataras nedarim. This is why i am so upset. This Rabbi basically messed them over. Oh well, I hope they are able to find three people at some point and don't have to worry about it too much.
I hope everyone has a great Rosh Hashana and a Kesiva Vichasima Tova (even the Rabbi that keeps doing this, because deep down I really love all Jews).
6 comments:
people are often unaware. i have similarly have had to point out many times the bit about krovim.
kt,
josh
I get that people are unaware, but last year it was the same Rabbi. And my friend told me it is the same rabbi every year for, at least, the past 5 years. I am not sure what this guy is trying to do, maybe rewrite the Shulchan Orech to his liking?
people also sit as the dayanim while the person stands, even though it says "mei-omed". perhaps the are following more along the line of making it look more serious, like a real beis din, and then following minhag rather than halacha.
it might be helpful -- or else distracting -- to also put the Tur, Beis Yosef, and the source gemara, which explains the reason for this, such that they don't think it is some kullah, despite being in Shulchan Aruch. Here is the Tur, with Beis Yosef:
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14272&st=&pgnum=284
where it is explained that because it is not din, we don't have these requirements for the beis din. and the gemara in Nedarim 77a, as well:
http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/%D7%A0%D7%93%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D_%D7%A2%D7%96_%D7%90
Here is the however, however: my guess is that it is not motivated *entirely* by thinking that the night is invalid for hataras nedarim. This source is that night *in general* is valid for hatarat nedarim. Rather, some part of the motivation might be thinking that the night is not *really* considered erev rosh hashanah. Just as a bechor fasts on erev Pesach, but not during the night preceding. This is then no different than saying it, day or night, one week before. That would work, but would not be in accordance with the minhag to do it particularly on erev rosh hashanah.
If this is the motivation, then you might want to address this aspect as well, if possible to muster some sources. Though bringing this up might confuse the issue.
I recall one year I missed doing it on erev Rosh haShanah, and a rabbi I asked said I could do it even during the aseret yemei teshuva. I don't know if he had any source for this. It is, after all, entirely within the realm of minhag.
kol tuv,
josh
Josh said >people also sit as the dayanim while the person stands, even though it says "mei-omed". perhaps the are following more along the line of making it look more serious, like a real beis din, and then following minhag rather than halacha.
Could be, or people just prefer to sit.
Josh said >Rather, some part of the motivation might be thinking that the night is not *really* considered erev rosh hashanah. Just as a bechor fasts on erev Pesach, but not during the night preceding. This is then no different than saying it, day or night, one week before. That would work, but would not be in accordance with the minhag to do it particularly on erev rosh hashanah.
The problem with this comparison is that almost every fast (other than Yom Kippur and Tisha Biav) only start at daybreak, even though the days themselves start the previous night. I don't think it has to do with erev Rosh Hashana. If we can say the selichos for erev Rosh Hashana during the night, why would hataras nedarim be different?
Josh said> I recall one year I missed doing it on erev Rosh haShanah, and a rabbi I asked said I could do it even during the aseret yemei teshuva. I don't know if he had any source for this. It is, after all, entirely within the realm of minhag.
Yeah, I have heard this also. Same with going to the mikva. It is all minhag, that is why this was so annoying, because he insisted that it was assur.
Thanks for the sources and insights, they are much appreciated.
Actually, there is good reason to think that night time doesn't have the full din of erev Rosh Hashana--the halacha is to say tachanun after slichot because it is assumed (contrary to most shuls in the US that I have been in) that slichot are said before dawn. We don't say tachanun on erev Rosh Hashana.
On the other hand, the Shulchan Aruch is clearly not talking about hatarat nedarim specifically on erev RH, since it mentions Shabbos, which is never erev RH.
Mike,
I would agree with you if people did not say tachnun with selichos when it IS during the day. I think the idea is that we don't say tachnun with SHACHRIS and MINCHA, not that we don't say it erev Rosh Hashana.
The night before IS considered erev Rosh Hashana, otherwise when is the maariv of erev Rosh Hashana said?
There are certain days where the night before is not included in certain laws and practices, but I have never heard the Minhag of hataras nedarim being exclusive to the daytime, just erev Rosh Hashana. But, you can't say that the night is not erev Rosh hashana.
Anyway, this whole thing is interesting and if someone could find the source for this custom then maybe we could get to the bottom of this.
I do think the original custom was to do hataraas nedarim after shachris because they read selichos before shachris and then they davened shachris and then they did hataras nedarim. However, I think once the selichos were separated from shachris, aka doing them at night instead of in the morning, the custom might have changed to do the hataras nedarim with selichos. I mean, i think that is probably why hataras nedarim is found after erev rosh hashana selichos in some selichos books.
This is all conjecture and needs further looking into. But you can't claim the night is not erev Rosh Hashana.
Post a Comment